With two England internationals in the coming week lets look at the next set of England connections with Tottenham. We discover which clubs players have scored the most goals for the country. There is the managerial links between Spurs and the England hot seat. We wonder when is an international not an international and why do players win ‘caps‘. There is also some assorted connections to round things off.
Two men, Terry Venables and Glenn Hoddle have managed and played for Tottenham and England. While Alf Ramsey and Peter Taylor both played for Spurs and managed the national side. Terry holds the record being the first player to have represented England at every level from Schoolboy to Full. With Youth, Amateur and Under23 in-between. As well as playing for the Football League. He signed for Spurs in 1966 and won the FA Cup. He was Tottenham’s manager 1987 - 1991. He became England manager in 1994 and left at the end of the 1996 European Championship when England finished third. He later managed Australia for a year. Glenn Hoddle (1) took over from Venables and led England at the 1998 World Cup (2) His coaching team were John Gorman, Ray Clemence and Peter Taylor (all ex-Spurs players) was in charge of the Under 21’s. Previously he had managed Tottenham 2001- 2003. Alf Ramsey was England manager from 1962- 1974. He was the first England manager to select his own side, prior to this the team was chosen by a selection committee. (2, 3) Apart from victory in the 1966 World Cup he led England in the 1970 tournament and the European Championships in 1968. Peter Taylor was in charge for one game in November 2000 as a caretaker after a successful spell in charge of the Under 21 side. A 0-1 defeat in a friendly away to Italy where he made David Beckham (5) captain for the first time.
Once again various sources differ in their findings, see notes England-1. Tottenham lay second in the goals for the country by each club. Only Manchester United players have scored more with 218. Whilst Tottenham players have netted 194 for England. Liverpool are behind us on 147 and Arsenal are way back in 6th place with 84. That’s less than half of Tottenham’s total.
So when is an international, not, well when caps are not awarded. Here are (at least some) of the games (with a Tottenham connection) where England (sometimes calling itself the FA) were involved in such a game.
In November 1939 at the start of WW2 Wales played England. England picked only players from the Southern clubs as they drew 1-1 and Ron Burgess was in the Welsh side. In 1944 another wartime international and England played Scotland at Wembley where Ted Ditchburn made his debut. Laurie Brown who joined us from Arsenal and had previously played in the 1960 Olympics went on a tour with the FA to the Far East and New Zealand in 1961 and played the ‘internationals’ V Singapore and Hong Kong. He scored in three of the games against regional sides in NZ.
Then in 1969 The FA went to the Far East and the Pacific. The team included our own Keith Weller (6) who would win a full cap later. Keith scored four times against regional sides, including a hat trick V Otago. Then he scored four in the three ‘internationals’ with NZ. He also scored two more V Singapore. He played V Hong Kong and the crowd at the game became hostile and lit fires and the friendly game ended with the players being taken off the pitch by the police. Then on to Thailand and Weller hit two more goals. At the same time as this tour the full England team were in Mexico where the World Cup would be held the following year (2). After one Full international another non -international game was played and Martin Peters and Alan Mullery both played. Alan who was the first player to be sent off for England a year earlier was sent off again. England went back to South America the following year as the World Cup warmed up and Ralph Coates(4) set up Jeff Astle to score the only goal in a B international but was then dropped from the final 22.
So why do we win “Caps.” In the earliest days of football players on the same side would not necessary wear matching shirts. Teams would be identified by wearing caps. These were some times held on by chin straps. These varied in style from ’school caps’ to ’pill box hats’.
In 1886 the FA received a proposal that players representing England should be presented with a white silk cap bearing a red rose. The term caps spread to other sports even when they were not physically presented.
See also Talking Tottenham 62, for the story of the Tottenham players on the England / FA XI tour to Australia in 1925. In Connections - England 4, we will reverse the process and look at England links to the Tottenham’s mangers job. There are some more non-international games with Spurs links and the eight Tottenham boys who have scored on their international debuts to date.
t- Keith 16024542
f- peter shearman (old non de plume reserved for THFC matters)
1 - Glenn Hoddle is featured in Hotspur Towers- The 100 Club.
2 - See The Flying Down to Rio Series.
3 - Hotspur Towers - Alf Ramsey.
4 - Hotspur Towers 40 - the League Cup 1973
5 - Who of course trained as a schoolboy with Tottenham but turned down a contract to join Manchester United.
6 - Interesting note his daughter later captained Tottenham Ladies side.
Flying Down to Rio
History of T.H.F.C.
Tribute to Bill Nicholson
The Road to Turin
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The 100 Year War
Interview with Marina Sirtis
A Long Dark Shadow
By Royal Appointment
School Report: An Insight into the Younger Eric Dier
All Change At Spurs
History Of THFC: Part 1
Passage to India: Rohan Rickets
Thanks For The Memories
Our Tommy Carroll
The AVB Files: Part1
You The Jury
The Hand Of Hugo
Connection - Argentina
Creating a Reputation